Curse

muelon · Feb 23, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

This is my second post about the differences between World of Warcraft and Guild Wars.
My first post is somewhere within the bowels of this web site for those who care to search.

Briefly, I am just playing around with WOW, waiting for Factions to be released. I am a gamer so what is a gamer to do when he is totally bored with GW.

Anyway these are some more observations that were not included in my first post.

Guild Wars: This game is all about PVP. Everything you do to level up your toon in PVE is to prepare you for PVP.
Remember when people went rabid when they nurfed the elem AOE meteor shower. Thank God GW did that. Do real players stand around in a meteor shower happily yelling “Thank you sir, may I have another”.
The PVE experience is very good in GW, but does not hold a candle to the PVE experience in WOW. One can level up to 20 in less then a week.
AN should absolutely be applauded in how well they have balanced PVP.

World of Warcraft: This game is all about PVE. If you are a pve nut this is your game. It is endless.
The PVP portion is wild, but in my opinon broken.
Blizzard has created some great pvp instances where the Allies and the Horde can face off.
They are just plan fun and can last a half hour or more. These face offs actually are more then worth the price of this game.
However, here is how it is broken.
I am on a PVP server. I can be attacked anywhere, any time by the Allies (of course I joined the Horde). I must admit that this does add a bit of excitement. One must always watch the mini map looking out for allies when in contested lands. YOU MUST ALLWAYS keep your guard up.
But, I am ganked a lot. Ganked means that someone who is 4 or 5 levels higher then you can sneak up on you and clock your butt. This often happens when talking to a NPC and having all you trade windows up. This means that a higher level opponent has just pawned you when you were trading or buying and not even playing the game.
Winning in PVP is all about who has a higher level or who has better gear.
There is no balance.
This guy just beat me cause he played the game a month longer then I did.
Now that’s broken.

One last observation.
The actual system of Guilding is so far superior in GW it is not funny.
The Guild Hall is a great place to meet and bond with your guildies. Nothing like in WOW.
Guilds are tighter in GW. By this I mean that it is easier to meet and pvp or pve for that matter with your guildies in GW.
In WOW I have never meet any of my guildies except on the chat. There is no place to meet.
The higher levels do not quest with the lower levels.
Now I am only a level 32 (max 60) and this may all change when one hits 60.
Do no, wont find out.
Bring on Factions.

Valdaran Longfoot · Feb 23, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

I disagree about GW being PvP based. For most people it is, but there are people that do not play PvP at all.

The PvE in GW is near endless as well. Missions are not all of PvE. Getting all the skills in the game, gold for the best and brigest weapons, staves, wands or whatever. Spending hours getting max gold, spending it then doing it again.

And once you are done with all of that, its time to do it again with a new character!!!

There is far more to do in PvE in WoW, but PvE in GW is not just a prep for PvP.

S E V E R · Feb 23, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

The first time I stepped out of Ascalon City in pre-searing I saw the road ahead and thought 'heck, no doubt there's going to be SOMEONE waiting in the bushes to highway robberize me'. After I found out that bar the team, the is no human interaction outside cities, it made me feel kinda empty.

Loviatar · Feb 23, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by S E V E R

The first time I stepped out of Ascalon City in pre-searing I saw the road ahead and thought 'heck, no doubt there's going to be SOMEONE waiting in the bushes to highway robberize me'. After I found out that bar the team, the is no human interaction outside cities, it made me feel kinda empty.

no ganking

no loot stealing

no corpse camping

and it has never been called an MMORPG by the makers.

play it as long as you have fun

put it away until the next big event comes along

put it back on shelf

this game is made to be taken in whatever size bites YOU want to do it in.

if doing all the wow stuff is what floats your boat than wow is your game to play

your money and your choice

Falcon213 · Feb 23, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdaran Longfoot

I disagree about GW being PvP based. For most people it is, but there are people that do not play PvP at all.

I would have to disagree with you.. just take a look at the ascencion quests.. each one has some aspect of pvp built in.

However that doesn't mean that pve by itself can't be fun... I don't know how many characters I made in Diablo 2, each one beating the game 3 times, even getting "run" through it (having a friend kill all of the boss monsters in each act, doing cows/baal runs until level 20, same in nightmare until level 40, same in hell). Even if I haven't found the experience to be quite the same, I'm sure there are many people who do.

fallot · Feb 23, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdaran Longfoot

I disagree about GW being PvP based. For most people it is, but there are people that do not play PvP at all.

I would also like to disagree with you. While PvE is a part of the game, it is secondary to where the game truly shines, PvP.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 23, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

You are both mistaken. Obviously the PvE is what it's all about. You can see how similar the PvP is to the PvE, so you should feel at home when you take a PvP break from the PvE'ing.

Seriously guys, PvE is not about running, rushing & farming to everyone.

Silent Coyote · Feb 23, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

This shall be the only time I comment on the PvP > PvE debate...

Let’s think about it logically, Anet decide to make an online game, to do this will take them several years and cost them a considerably large sum of money. Naturally being a business, and taking into account that they wont see any profit from this until after it is completed, they want to create it in a way that takes the least amount of time and cost the least amount of money possible.

Every model, texture, instance, and line of code created for this game takes time. Programmers, artist, and designers have to be paid for the time it takes them to make this content. Therefore the greater the time taken, the greater the cost of creating the game.

So with this in mind, if your creating a game that’s all about PvP and the PvE is just a little bit on the side to prep you for PvP, are you really going to spend all that time developing all the resources that went into making the PvE campaign (and just think about it, there's an awful lot)?

Seems like a waist of time and money to me if it’s all about PvP, I would of released the game earlier, or maybe spent that time on PvP maps and mechanics instead.

Diablo™ · Feb 23, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

I like to believe the game is more PVE based than PVP, or at least equally based. But the game design seems to prove otherwise.

Lab Monke · Feb 23, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

I think the game is great ... It really is & I've managed to stretch the life of PvE as long as I can in my guild, but this game is about PvP. There are way too many things that point to it. How about the name of the game , Guild Wars ? You level so easy in this game & everybody is on the same footing very quickly. It's all about knowing your skills and which skills to use in certain situations. Plus, I mean ask yourself how hard PvE really is ? Once you figure what build beats or is better for a certain mission or area (UW or FoW) nothing changes about it. The monsters don't get smart and say "oh this time you can't use the gear tank"... PvE has all sorts of areas that challenge you to figure out how to beat it, but once you've done that it's rather boring from that point on... The only thing left to do is PvP/GvG.. Or just keep going around doing the same exploited missions over and over to collect items you don't need anymore.. lol

I never got into GvG b/c that's not what my guild is about, but I'd rather do something challenging and unexpected instead of doing the expected over and over. This game is filled with some good PvE action, but it's not what the game is centered around by any means..

wsmcasey · Feb 23, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Everyone says the game is geared towards PvP, but I didn't even really get into PvP until about 7 months after playing PvE with multiple characters. Its like comparing apples and oranges if your comparing this game to WOW. I did get bored of GW and put it away for 2 months. I just came back a few weeks ago and found lots of changes, some good some bad, but at least GW is free and the developers really stay on top of this game. It's quite surprising how much dedication that the developers invest in a free to play game like GW. I'm bet that the developers of GW are investing equal time (if not more time) in to improving the game than the WOW developers are, and you have to pay monthly for there dedication. Both Blizzard and A-net of course have an end result, and that is to make money, but I personally get the feeling that the good people of A-net really love GW and that its not all about just making money.

not a fan boy, just my observations and opinions.

DeathDealer · Feb 23, 2006, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by muelon

Guild Wars: This game is all about PVP. Everything you do to level up your toon in PVE is to prepare you for PVP.

I do not in any way believe this to be anywhere near the truth. I have been playing GW for 8 months, have 3 accounts (I hate deleting my hard work), and have only 7 fame. The reason I only have 7 fame is because I do not in any way enjoy PvP/GvG/Tombs because there is far too many immature players and am tired of seeing the endless flaming that happens there. I would be willing to bet that at least 50% of people that play GW feel the exact same way as me on this subject. I have a friends list full of names of people that don't PvP and the guild I am in has very few people that PvP. A majority of people just want to relax and kill some AI monsters and just have fun without being insulted because of a defeat in the arena. I know that there is plenty of PvP'ers that are not anything like my aforementioned statements, but they are far and few between.
For *some* people, what you said is true, but don't assume that applies to everyone.

my two cents.

Riotact · Feb 23, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Its really 2 games in 1, PVP & PVE
The lucky ones who like both have it made. I solely bought the game for PVE & rarely play PVP & think of it as a nice free bonus to maybe play one day. So I think it depends on the person.

Silent Coyote · Feb 23, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lab Monke

The monsters don't get smart and say "oh this time you can't use the gear tank"... PvE has all sorts of areas that challenge you to figure out how to beat it, but once you've done that it's rather boring from that point on...

And how is this different to any other PvE game? I play WoW too (occasionally only lvl19) and a few of my friends play WoW exclusively. Their all lvl60, and all they have left to do in WoW is do the same high level Instances over and over, each time nothing changes, and maybe, just maybe they get some uber loot drop which doesn't really make any difference because they've still just got the same high level instances left to do. Oh, one of them is trying to get an epic mount at the moment which cost 900g and involves farming the same monsters in the same spot repetitively for several weeks, does that count as better PvE content?

In some ways GW is like games like Half Life. It has story driven missions that you play through maybe once or twice but once you've done them the first time nothing much changes, and then you have the PvP side (like team deathmatch in Half Life) that you can come back to often, but in no way would you say that when creating Half Life the focus was purely on Deathmatch mode.

Difference is it took me a week to complete and get bored of Half Life, I've been playing Guild Wars PvE for 9 months now, and I've still got stuff to do.

Diablo™ · Feb 23, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Coyote

...but in no way would you say that when creating Half Life the focus was purely on Deathmatch mode.

I think thats because the story quality of Half Life or HL2 is significantly greater than that of Guild Wars. With so many skill variety and pvp balance patches, its not hard to imagine that the story elements of guild wars was only threw in later (not to mention how awful they were). There's not much PVE content to keep a player entertained beyond lvl 20 and 15k armors, except that o-so expensive fissure armor... within 4 to 5 months, anyone would eventually get bored with PVE or move on to PVP. It's just my opinion...

Lab Monke · Feb 23, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

I've played all the 6 primaries for a few months, so sure the game has a lengthy life to it. Just don't expect PvE to carry you into an ongoing challenge. It took me a good 2 weeks to beat the game with my 1st character, maybe a week on my 2nd, and then the other characters I just had power lvl'd, ran, spoonfed, etc b/c there was nothing different. I had my last 4 characters at lvl 20, ascended, in Ember Light in less than 8 hours each w/ 15K armor.. You know why ? Cuz GW PvE is very exploited...

It just depends on what kind of gamer you are, but after awhile there just isn't any joy out of PvE. Everybody farms over and over.. Go to Tombs all everybody wants is a Ranger/Barrage group to farm it up real quick, sell items, make profit. War Camp, LF Gear Tank, Bonder, Healer, SS, and MM. Let's just go around and collect items to sell, wee, fun.. I play games to be challenged, not to repeat things over and over. I liked this game alot more when there were PvE elements of the game that were not exploited. Before there was such thing as a 55 monk or a 5 man Oro team, etc.. You get the same results from 80% of the ppl who continue to play PvE when there is nothing left to do.. ie (improve my self worth in the GW community) If you wanted to perfect your skills you would do GvG & get the unexpected when you battle it out. You know the herder does the giant stomp, you know the ice imp uses mind freeze, you can practically telegraf the AI's next move. Go somewhere unpredictable & fresh...

And your statement about WoW, sure I bet it's the same crap over there too at high levels. The difference is it takes a lot longer to get to those higher levels. You grind alot & I'm not much into that either. There is probably 10-15 times more PvE content in Wow, but that is what the game is built around. GW is not like WoW..

Phrozenflame · Feb 23, 2006, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathDealer

I do not in any way believe this to be anywhere near the truth. I have been playing GW for 8 months, have 3 accounts (I hate deleting my hard work), and have only 7 fame. The reason I only have 7 fame is because I do not in any way enjoy PvP/GvG/Tombs because there is far too many immature players and am tired of seeing the endless flaming that happens there. I would be willing to bet that at least 50% of people that play GW feel the exact same way as me on this subject. I have a friends list full of names of people that don't PvP and the guild I am in has very few people that PvP. A majority of people just want to relax and kill some AI monsters and just have fun without being insulted because of a defeat in the arena. I know that there is plenty of PvP'ers that are not anything like my aforementioned statements, but they are far and few between.
For *some* people, what you said is true, but don't assume that applies to everyone.

my two cents.

I have yet to see flames on PvP districts or any abuse I get from MY mistakes..even when I know Becuase of me a certain team lost, they just tell me nicely how to rectify my problems, thts how it is on Euro servers. Dont know about others.

Lab Monke · Feb 23, 2006, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Well you have to understand that you get more spoiled brats in America than Europe..

But, I could see how someone would get annoyed about another person trash-talking, but that's just gonna happen... It's unavoidable b/c there is this thing callled competition ? Some cross the line, but I have to believe that a majority of ppl want to stir the pot a little for braggin' rights. There is nothing wrong with that & some ppl are just sore-losers.

DeathDealer · Feb 23, 2006, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lab Monke

Well you have to understand that you get more spoiled brats in America than Europe..

But, I could see how someone would get annoyed about another person trash-talking, but that's just gonna happen... It's unavoidable b/c there is this thing callled competition ? Some cross the line, but I have to believe that a majority of ppl want to stir the pot a little for braggin' rights. There is nothing wrong with that & some ppl are just sore-losers.

I know its gonna happen, what I meant by people flaming was the same old 10 year old kids writing the same old stuff everytime..."noobzor".."pwnzred"...and tons of other retarded phrases that annoy the living sh*t outta me...a main pet peeve of mine. I also love how if you dont have rank, you will not get into a group (90% of the time). I can't stand IWAY either so I wont join a group of iway'ers and they still seem to be crawling out of the woodwork. I know some of you are thinking "just make or use a build to defeat iway" but that leads me back to the first problem of not being able to find a group due to lack of Rank.

Silent Coyote · Feb 23, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lab Monke

GW PvE is very exploited...

Agreed the PvE side of GW has become rather exploited now, finding groups to do the SF quest etc is difficult as most players seem only interested in farming the areas (but if that’s what they enjoy and want to do then who am I to say otherwise?).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lab Monke

There is probably 10-15 times more PvE content in WoW,

Yes there is more PvE contentin WoW at the moment and it takes longer to complete in WoW but that’s down to the design of the two games. Try thinking of it this way:

WoW is a MMORPG, it has a monthly fee, its designed to last until Blizzard shut down the servers. The players should be made to feel that they still have things to do until this time. GW is not a MMORPG, it has no monthly fee. The PvE contents is designed to last 6 months until they release a new chapter (however Factions has taken longer than this), at which point the players should feel they want more content and so buy the expansion.

Its just two ways of tackling the same problem (namely getting lots of money from your customers) difference is in WoW you get it all handed to you in one go, in GW you get it in instalments.